Here and here are two texts on the subject which cover some of the same things as that video (albeit not from a first-hand person-from-the-US-traveling-in-Xinjiang perspective like the video does).
I don’t think there’s anything that can only be achieved by that.
But generally in China the CCP is who decides about everything that happens in the country. Being religious is one of the things that are against the official template of how a person should be. Any religion is a problem, but a nation as religious as Uyghurs is considered a problem.
And of course: Just look at the clocks. Any clock in the Uyghur areas is showing the local time, not Beijing time. Only clocks at railway stations, police stations and such show the Beijing time. The people there are far too independent for Beijing’s liking. Or yours.
the CCP is who decides about everything that happens in the country
The CPC has 100 million members, it’s their job to represent the people. This is like saying “the government decides what happens”
Any clock in the Uyghur areas is showing the local time, not Beijing time
I spent 3 months in Xinjiang, I didn’t notice this, but can’t remember the last time I looked at a clock that wasn’t on a phone.
Any religion is a problem
You’re recycling anti-soviet propaganda. China isn’t atheist. For China, they officially support religion, but in practice recognize religious organizations as potential problems due to history, from the boxer rebellion to Fulong gong to ETIM terrorist attacks. They reconcile this by providing funding and official support to religious institutions, but exert pressure (I’m unclear how exactly) to promote less radical factions and don’t provide as many special privileges in areas where there’s risks of extremism, for example there’s religious schools in Xi’an, but not Urumqi. Personally I think the situation with private schools and hukou is a mess that needs to be addressed in a way that doesn’t ration education by income and zip code, but as an outsider, I don’t have the nuanced understanding how to do this in a way that doesn’t impinge on the rights of minorities and helps to preserve their culture, but the Chinese I’ve asked about this seem less concerned about losing aspects of their own unique cultures than having a common language and understanding, which IMO is a god-awful take, discarding the work of millennia of human development.
nation as religious as Uyghurs
How do you measure how religious a group of people are?
If you think China colonized Xinjiang, well… yeah, they did. But that was 22 centuries ago, a millennium before the [people now known as] Uyghurs had even arrived there. The demographics and ruling empires unsurprisingly changed a few times in the ensuing millennia, but since the Qing dynasty committed the Dzungar genocide there (from 1755–1758, with help of several peoples including Han and Uyghur) it has mostly remained a part of China.
The ancient history is interesting, but more recent events (eg Al-Qaeda-affiliated groups the US has been funding there) are more relevant to the present situation.
I did watch the first three minutes. Everything he shows is true, everything he explains as interpretation is just full of shit.
What specifically is he full of shit about? I recommend watching more than three minutes of it.
The Soviet Union had no colonies. This was always projection on the part of colonial and neocolonial countries for the USSR’s unwavering support for national liberation struggles, which earned them incredible amounts of sanctions.
Do you think the current colonies of the Russia somehow appeared out of thin air? All of the Russia’s current territory has been Soviet territory in the past. All of the Russia’s colonies were of course also Soviet colonies.
What are you referencing when you say current Russian colonies? Pretty much all Russian colonization happened in the 16th century in Siberia and central asia under imperial Russia. The only colonization other than that was in Alaska and in parts of northern California in the 18th century, while still under the imperial regime.
Precisely the colonies that were gradually colonized in the 16th to 20th century.
Just like French and British colonies are still colonies even if they were colonized centuries ago, Russian colonies are still colonies even if they were colonized centuries ago.
The eastern parts of the Russia only really ended up under Russian rule after the Transsiberian railway was built.
Precisely the colonies that were gradually colonized in the 16th to 20th century.
Those were colonized by Imperial Russia… You know the government that the Soviet union overthrew.
Just like French and British colonies are still colonies even if they were colonized centuries ago, Russian colonies are still colonies even if they were colonized centuries ago.
The difference being that the British and French governments were continuations of the same government that took those colonial holdings. Also the colonies taken in the 20th century now belong to the US.
The eastern parts of the Russia only really ended up under Russian rule after the Transsiberian railway was built.
The eastern parts of the Russia only really ended up under Russian rule after the Transsiberian railway was built.
I mean that’s just factually incorrect. The Imperial Russian expansion east started in the late 15th century and had colonies at the pacific by the mid 16th century, and had nearly a million exiles alone heading east by the mid 17th century.
The Trans-Siberian railway wasn’t completed until 1904, the same year of the Russo Japanese war where they had a battle over control of Manchuria with millions of combatants. Nothing you are claiming is historically correct in the slightest.
Modern Russia had no colonies to inherit, it has no colonies. The Soviet Union liberated the Tsar’s colonies and thus modern Russia had none to inherit.
I think even if someone were to be generous and agreed with your view of current events, it would be considered annexation rather than colonization. It’s an important delineation as colonization requires a conquest in the aims of material extraction without benefit to the native populace.
Anti-intellectualism exists anywhere you’re peddling your authoritarian, genocide-denial sophistry, so kindly (or unkindly, I literally don’t give a fuck), fuck off.
Edit to anyone reading this thread: note that (especially in the case of Cowbee) not engaging is the only way to deal with tankies, regardless of how much engagement bait they throw in their comments!
They’re self-admittedly only here to propagandize/whitewash their authoritarian views in the first place, their arguments are based on a completely different set of facts from the reality that you live in, and no matter how reasonable they make themselves sound, they aren’t here to argue in good faith. YOU WILL NOT WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH THEM HERE BECAUSE THEY AREN’T ACTUALLY ENGAGING WITH YOUR POINTS - YOU WILL ONLY MAKE THEIR CAREFULLY SANITIZED POSITIONS SEEM MORE REASONABLE TO OTHERS READING THE THREAD.
“Plugging your ears and running away is the only way to deal with people who have unanswerable critiques of my way of thinking. For your own safety, you must terminate critical thought immediately.”
Dude you would have to waterboard me for six business days to get me to admit to that kind of ideological weakness
What a weird statement. I replied to you saying you reflexively ignored information purely because the person posting it has a Lemmy.ml account, this is just blatant anti intellectualism and forcing yourself into an echo chamber. Not sure what you mean by “authoritarian, genocide-denial sophistry” either.
Edit for your edit:
This is just mental gymnastics to justify your own echo-chamber.
i recommend this recent video by Eric Hovagim to learn more about the Uyghur topic (but i guess you’ll probably skip it based on its title?)
Who has time for videos? Reading is much faster.
(I generally skip all video links, nothing personal)
Here and here are two texts on the subject which cover some of the same things as that video (albeit not from a first-hand person-from-the-US-traveling-in-Xinjiang perspective like the video does).
I did watch the first three minutes. Everything he shows is true, everything he explains as interpretation is just full of shit.
“Why?”
Well, for the same reason Soviet Union was doing the same to its colonies. Or why France was doing the same to its.
Blargh, the guy’s eaten the hook with bait and floater.
Ok, can you tell the reason why? What is the thing that China wants that can only be achieved by mass murder and genocide of its working population?
I don’t think there’s anything that can only be achieved by that.
But generally in China the CCP is who decides about everything that happens in the country. Being religious is one of the things that are against the official template of how a person should be. Any religion is a problem, but a nation as religious as Uyghurs is considered a problem.
And of course: Just look at the clocks. Any clock in the Uyghur areas is showing the local time, not Beijing time. Only clocks at railway stations, police stations and such show the Beijing time. The people there are far too independent for Beijing’s liking. Or yours.
The CPC has 100 million members, it’s their job to represent the people. This is like saying “the government decides what happens”
I spent 3 months in Xinjiang, I didn’t notice this, but can’t remember the last time I looked at a clock that wasn’t on a phone.
You’re recycling anti-soviet propaganda. China isn’t atheist. For China, they officially support religion, but in practice recognize religious organizations as potential problems due to history, from the boxer rebellion to Fulong gong to ETIM terrorist attacks. They reconcile this by providing funding and official support to religious institutions, but exert pressure (I’m unclear how exactly) to promote less radical factions and don’t provide as many special privileges in areas where there’s risks of extremism, for example there’s religious schools in Xi’an, but not Urumqi. Personally I think the situation with private schools and hukou is a mess that needs to be addressed in a way that doesn’t ration education by income and zip code, but as an outsider, I don’t have the nuanced understanding how to do this in a way that doesn’t impinge on the rights of minorities and helps to preserve their culture, but the Chinese I’ve asked about this seem less concerned about losing aspects of their own unique cultures than having a common language and understanding, which IMO is a god-awful take, discarding the work of millennia of human development.
How do you measure how religious a group of people are?
If you think China colonized Xinjiang, well… yeah, they did. But that was 22 centuries ago, a millennium before the [people now known as] Uyghurs had even arrived there. The demographics and ruling empires unsurprisingly changed a few times in the ensuing millennia, but since the Qing dynasty committed the Dzungar genocide there (from 1755–1758, with help of several peoples including Han and Uyghur) it has mostly remained a part of China.
The ancient history is interesting, but more recent events (eg Al-Qaeda-affiliated groups the US has been funding there) are more relevant to the present situation.
What specifically is he full of shit about? I recommend watching more than three minutes of it.
The Soviet Union had no colonies. This was always projection on the part of colonial and neocolonial countries for the USSR’s unwavering support for national liberation struggles, which earned them incredible amounts of sanctions.
Do you think the current colonies of the Russia somehow appeared out of thin air? All of the Russia’s current territory has been Soviet territory in the past. All of the Russia’s colonies were of course also Soviet colonies.
What are you referencing when you say current Russian colonies? Pretty much all Russian colonization happened in the 16th century in Siberia and central asia under imperial Russia. The only colonization other than that was in Alaska and in parts of northern California in the 18th century, while still under the imperial regime.
Precisely the colonies that were gradually colonized in the 16th to 20th century.
Just like French and British colonies are still colonies even if they were colonized centuries ago, Russian colonies are still colonies even if they were colonized centuries ago.
The eastern parts of the Russia only really ended up under Russian rule after the Transsiberian railway was built.
Those were colonized by Imperial Russia… You know the government that the Soviet union overthrew.
The difference being that the British and French governments were continuations of the same government that took those colonial holdings. Also the colonies taken in the 20th century now belong to the US.
I mean that’s just factually incorrect. The Imperial Russian expansion east started in the late 15th century and had colonies at the pacific by the mid 16th century, and had nearly a million exiles alone heading east by the mid 17th century.
The Trans-Siberian railway wasn’t completed until 1904, the same year of the Russo Japanese war where they had a battle over control of Manchuria with millions of combatants. Nothing you are claiming is historically correct in the slightest.
Modern Russia had no colonies to inherit, it has no colonies. The Soviet Union liberated the Tsar’s colonies and thus modern Russia had none to inherit.
They are sure trying to re colonize all the old soviet countries though. Give them credit for that at least!
Not really, there’s a major schism due to western plundering of the former Soviet countries and installation of compradors.
Or, in reality, russia is trying to re colonialize these countries. Frame it how you will
I think even if someone were to be generous and agreed with your view of current events, it would be considered annexation rather than colonization. It’s an important delineation as colonization requires a conquest in the aims of material extraction without benefit to the native populace.
Nah, they aren’t attempting to set up colonies.
That was quite informative, thanks for sharing!
I skipped it based on your instance.
Anti-intellectualism truly is on the rise.
The tankies have descended upon the thread I see.
Anti-intellectualism exists anywhere you’re peddling your authoritarian, genocide-denial sophistry, so kindly (or unkindly, I literally don’t give a fuck), fuck off.
Edit to anyone reading this thread: note that (especially in the case of Cowbee) not engaging is the only way to deal with tankies, regardless of how much engagement bait they throw in their comments!
They’re self-admittedly only here to propagandize/whitewash their authoritarian views in the first place, their arguments are based on a completely different set of facts from the reality that you live in, and no matter how reasonable they make themselves sound, they aren’t here to argue in good faith. YOU WILL NOT WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH THEM HERE BECAUSE THEY AREN’T ACTUALLY ENGAGING WITH YOUR POINTS - YOU WILL ONLY MAKE THEIR CAREFULLY SANITIZED POSITIONS SEEM MORE REASONABLE TO OTHERS READING THE THREAD.
So don’t give them the satisfaction.
“Plugging your ears and running away is the only way to deal with people who have unanswerable critiques of my way of thinking. For your own safety, you must terminate critical thought immediately.”
Dude you would have to waterboard me for six business days to get me to admit to that kind of ideological weakness
Tankie chuds fuck off!
Tankie chuds fuck off!
1
What a weird statement. I replied to you saying you reflexively ignored information purely because the person posting it has a Lemmy.ml account, this is just blatant anti intellectualism and forcing yourself into an echo chamber. Not sure what you mean by “authoritarian, genocide-denial sophistry” either.
Edit for your edit:
This is just mental gymnastics to justify your own echo-chamber.
wHaT a WeIrD sTaTeMeNt
It’s certainly easier to levy a claim against someone than actually back up that claim, I suppose.
Tankie chuds fuck off!
Nice to meet you, McCarthy.