Brave is essentially just Chrome with an adblocker, a bunch of bloatware, and a bunch of controversies.
Brave took BAT donations in YouTuber’s names without their consent, with them keeping the money if the YouTubers didn’t claim it. https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2019/01/13/brave-web-browser-no-longer-claims-to-fundraise-on-behalf-of-others-so-thats-nice/
Brave’s search engine crawler hides itself from websites by pretending to be Googlebot, and Meta (Facebook) buys API access from them to train their AI. https://stackdiary.com/brave-selling-copyrighted-data-for-ai-training/
The business model of Brave rewards as a whole is to block all other ad networks to replace them with their own, which is unfair as only YouTubers and websites that have joined can make money from most Brave users.
If Brave actually cared, they would create an acceptable ads style feature which was free for everyone and allowed simple contextual banners while blocking ads which track you, take up most of the page, or have NSFW content.
Their approach is monopolistic as they have full control and can strangle YouTubers and websites by dropping pay at any time.
And Brenden Eich has said on Twitter that he plans to release “Brave Origin”, which is a paid version of Brave without the bloatware. That name is ironic as he is admitting that his browser is commercialised and bloated, which is similar to when gorhill gave uBlock way to Chris Aljoudi who commercialised it, which led him to create uBlock Origin.
If you use Brave, ditch it and look at using Librewolf or Helium instead, which both include no ads nor tracking and don’t have Brave News, Rewards, Wallet, Talk etc bloatware.
I dislike any browser which blocks content (such as ads) by default. It may sound silly, but Imo, that’s not what a browser should be doing. It’s job is to act as an HTTP client, render HTML and do caching, storage and all the management which goes with it and offer any tools to tinker with it.
The meaning of the content displayed should be of no concern to the browser as it is subjective.
I will install an addon to deal with unwanted content as I see fit. Firefox is getting kinda bloated with all the things which come with it (pocket, accounts, default bookmarks…), but I can live with that.What if we start from the premise of a browser being judged by its most popular use case?
I’m happy to change some default settings to customize for my use case, knowing that most users that don’t know/care about such things are getting ads blocked by default (let’s be honest, I like crawling through settings each time I install new software regardless :P )
Use
lynxthen.
Honestly what do people have against Firefox that can’t be fixed with plugins? It’s the only decent browser that isn’t chrome based, and I think that deserves support. And with plugins and sync it’s a great experience.
Firefox is great. Mozilla, however, is making some weird moves every now and then. A lot of people don’t quite trust Mozilla to have their interests at heart anymore.
The obvious solution is to use a Firefox fork. I have no idea whether there’s a meaningful difference between the various Firefox forks, and would welcome a summary.
I switched to LibreWolf, which is a Firefox fork that prioritizes anonymity and privacy. I like it, but there are definite quirks:
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it will tell every website your time zone is UTC+0, which breaks some stuff. Proton Calendar works if you tell it your actual timezone.
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no password saving and cookies delete every session, so you have to log in to every website every time you restart. This is intentional but I don’t understand the rationale. You can install a password manager though and self-host it if you want.
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because your device fingerprint is generic, a lot of websites incorrectly assume you are a not. I have to use FF for GrubHub, for instance, as they won’t play nice with LibreWolf due to restrictions on the HTML5 Canvas element, for instance.
You can turn off the fingerprint protection in the Librewolf tab of the settings page.
All of this should be configurable per site. Lots of sites do not need to know my timezone, location, cookies or fingerprint, but some do. I want to give sites I like, those where I’ve intentionally created an account, usually, permission to these things while denying it to every random article I happen to click on.
You can set exceptions for cookies on per site basis. I know because I also thought this for long time before finding it.
Settings - Privacy & Security - Cookies and Site Data - Manage exceptions
One item off the annoyance list. :)
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For me it’s a combination of Mozilla making strange business decisions (removing of the “we never sell your data” policy) and the fact that a lot of websites take forever to load on Firefox.
I’ve tried forks, LibreWolf pisses me off. Too many settings to change just to still have a broken browsing experience in the sake of privacy. If I need that level of privacy, I’ll use I2P/Tor.
I hate the fact that chromium has won, but it’s getting difficult to avoid the fact that web developers don’t give a rats ass if the website doesn’t work well on Firefox.
Brave was my primary for a while, but I switched to Vivaldi after reading about some of the BAT bait and switch.
Mozilla changed their privacy policy and terms of use about a year ago in ways that show they cannot be trusted. I think Librewolf offers more privacy/security features than Firefox can with plugins (disabling some canvas features that are used for fingerprinting for example). I think Firefox has some advertising/tracking crap enabled by default too (PPA API?). IDK, I just don’t trust them anymore with their policy changes. Mullvad Browser is even more “hardened,” but less convenient than Librewolf.
My main browsers are FF or Zen (a fork of FF), but I think a lot of sites aren’t able to work with just a plug-in due to how deeply they are coded for Chromium. Some of them being Amazon sites like Luna, Amazon Music, and Audible (pretty sure their other media sites/services also refuse to work if any hint of non-Chromium browsers are detected. I have run into non-Amazon sites with media or similar tell me to “update your browser” or “use a supported browser” (which is at least more honest than telling me that my FF is “out of date”).
While there are likely elements in some sites that actually can work with FF (I have had really random moments where I got part of a song to play on Amazon Music but then gives the “browser is out of date” message). The Chromium focused coding is IE all over again. Just a self-fulfilling cycle of making it look like FF is not as capable. And I hate that in the instances where changing the User Agent to be Chrome works, that it just keeps stats looking like Chrome and forks are what people are using (and might lead to seeming like FF is used less than it actually is).
I haven’t encountered anything like that, but maybe that’s because I wouldn’t touch anything Amazon with a 2 metre stick
For all my folks on android a really good chromium browser would be Cromite which is a fork of Bromite a really good privacy browser. I use it with Kagi as my search engine and it works so well for me.
For FF, I used IronFox for a bit. But it had issues with using alternative search engines as defaults. But it’s still a solid browser.
I recommend using the TOR browser as a heavy security measure and for privacy if you need it the most. Remember to change the defaults to the strictest security measures for the best privacy and protection from Malware (ads) and the works.
Waterfox is an option too
i recently installed cromite to find its adblock completely non-functional, anyone knows if it’s just me?
(i mean the obvious ones like google ads were shown…)
just disable the in built blocker and use ublock instead
Adblock was purchased by Google years ago and now allows “non-intrusive” (is Google) ads by default. Use uBlock if you can.
lol ik, i’m not talking about adblock™ but instead i mean the ad blocking feature integrated in the cromite browser. afaik it uses ABP engine/filters tho
An extra reason: Eich is a homophobic asshole and an anti-masker
…and? Are you going to stop using the transistor?
Man’s dead.
Don’t matter what he thought when he’s rotting in the ground.
Does when you’re still alive
I hope you never use JavaScript then. Eich created that too.
Oh I see, outrage of convenience.
No.
It’s very simple: if someone is alive and holds detestable views, then giving them money gives them a chance to then use that money to lobby for their views. And in many many many many many cases, they do exactly that.
If someone is dead and holds detestable views, they’re unable to do anything about it (cause they’re dead)
Desktop = Librewolf, Mullvad and hardened firefox browsers. Strictly separating uses. Mobile (Android) = Cromite, Brave, Firefox and Tor. Again, separating uses.
Don’t forget that they used to add referral parameters to links you clicked so they got a kickback from you clicking things from anywhere even if they didn’t make that link for you.
To those asking “which browser other than Firefox”
It’s fantastic. It’s Chrome, stripped of junk, with full (not lite) Ublock Origin natively supported and shipped. What more could you want?
And it can coexist alongside Firefox.
Cromite is also great, but its antifingerprinting is so hardcore it breaks some sites. That’s perfect for shopping/private browsing, but a bit much for daily driving unless tracking resistance is your #1 priority.
On iOS and OSX, Orion (from Kagi) is sublime. It’s Safari based (which you want for Apple stuff), but heavily modified with a native blocker, and supports extensions if you really need them. There aren’t many Safari “forks” like it.
I say this because I’ve been through a gauntlet of trying a bunch. Bromite, ungoogled chromium, waterfox, pale moon, Thorium, Vivaldi, all sorts of iOS apps and Firefox/Chromium forks. And these feel like endgame to me. Helium is just about perfect (as long as its development isn’t dropped), and Orion is close aside from some UI quirks.
Thank you for the recommendation, I will try out helium
Where are we on zen browser?
Eh. Firefox is fine.
The only FF fork I’ve ever used for some time is Cachy Browser, as it shipped with my distro and was ostensibly amore optimized. But even they depreciated it in lieu of vanilla Firefox.
And Firefox gets faster security patches anyway.
I’m more interested in Chrome forks because it’s Google spyware. And, as much as I don’t like it, I find Chromium-based browsers to be faster. That doesn’t matter so much on desktop, but the difference is pretty dramatic on Android.
If you used Ungoogled Chromium why did you switch and recommend Helium? Can’t you achieve Helium settings and tweaks on Ungoogled Chromium? Why add an additional party to potentially delay security updates?
Ungoogled Chromium does not support full uBlock Origin. Last I checked, it wont auto-update itself on Windows without a 3rd party tool, and I remember it having some other “quirks” from the stuff it strips out. The delay for security updates seems pretty minimal, too.
And personally, I like the bangs feature, now that I’m using Orion on iOS anyway.
But its based on ungoogled-chromium, so if you prefer to use upstream, that makes a lot of sense. Helium’s main pitch seems to be an “easier to install” ungoogled chromium anyway.
No mobile apps
Orion is mobile. So is Cromite.
DDG is pretty good too. I like its approach, with a UI that encourages whitelisting sites.
But they don’t sync with helium afaik
Orion syncs cross platform, DuckDuckGo does as well. And I believe you can sync with extensions.
Am I the only person who uses mobile tab grouping and sees it as a must-have? Its ridiculous that Firefox is over 5 years behind on this incredible QoL feature. To me it’s almost as bad as if a browser didn’t support bookmarks. It’s just ridiculous at this point.
What is this feature?
I posted an insane rant with a video here :
Brave is the browser version of Honey. It blocks 3rd party ads and inserts its own, taking the money. Either block the ads or don’t but this is shitty.
I’m just glad people are finally starting to mention LibreWolf as the first go-to.
Do people realize that if Firefox dies (in the many ways that could be interpreted), all of these downstream forks will also die right?
Like, the work to in essence remove unwanted parts of a code base is admirable but its an utterly miniscule fraction of the work that goes into maintaining a modern browser, keeping up with standards, sending people to be voices at conventions, etc.
The beauty of open source projects is that if they are abandoned, other people can pick them back up. Sure it may be difficult, but if it wasn’t FOSS it wouldn’t even be possible.
I never used it specifically because of it being run by Brenden Eich. I have no intention of knowingly throwing my towel in and helping to enrich someone who’s thrown his money around to strip people of the right to marry who they want because he finds it icky.
I’m sure there’s other bad shit from him but after that I just treat him and anything he does as pure toxin.
If that sounds harsh, well, I don’t give a fuck.
I already use librewolf on desktop which is a great experience. But Firefox on mobile is just so horribly laggy and has a dated UI, the only offering it has is ublock origin and reader mode. Brave is the only real mobile browser choice I have since it has pretty good tracker blocking and I can disable nearly all of the problems you’ve mentioned here.
I’m kind of surprised to hear you say that. I’ve been quite happy with Firefox mobile. I haven’t experienced any of the lag or whatever you mentioned. The ability to use extensions far outweighs any updated visuals in the UI department for me. It does everything I need a browser to do.
What is it that you need that isn’t already there? (genuinely asking)
If Firefox used a more modern Material UI and fixed some of the gestures (the expanding website menu makes no sense, it doesn’t follow your finger) it would be much more appealing. As it stands now chromium based browsers naturally use standard material components and feel a lot nicer to use on my phone.
When I scroll in Firefox, there’s quite a lot of stutter and it struggles to maintain 120 fps.
If any 1 of these 2 issues were fixed I’d switch to Firefox in a heartbeat, ublock origin is great
Fair. Thanks for answering.
Tab grouping is the killer feature for me. Chromium lets me group tabs into boxes, color code and name those boxes, easily switch between tabs in that boxed group with icons on the bottom, close all the tabs in the group, and reorder the groups. Here’s a video showing this awesome, intuitive, actually valuable feature that many people have begged Mozilla for for years only to be ignored: https://youtu.be/P6mcduJFSsM
It allows me to keep lots of tabs open, social things, shopping things, travel research, etc etc. Without needing to bookmark everything (a lot of stuff you only need for a few weeks, and bookmarks are kinda supposed to be forever).
If you haven’t used that feature on mobile, it’s hard to see how life changing it is. Like actually life changing in the sense that it allows me to keep an eye on much more things, remember about them, follow up on them, and easily get rid of them when their usefulness is over. If I’m looking for information on some event I can have a group for that and with just one tap access any of like 10 tabs and quickly cross reference them. If I’m shopping I can have products in different tabs, groups for the different things I’m shopping for.
There are no Firefox extensions that provide this functionality, which, to me should be an absolute baseline feature for any web browser now that’s been awhile since its been introduced. Especially for mobile browsers where screen real estate is so limited, and where we use our browsers for all sorts of sudden brief things that are ephemeral enough not to bookmark but also longevitous or time-consuming enough that I want to have them open for more than a few minutes.
Compare this with firefox, where all I get is this clumsy two column list of tabs which quickly becomes navigable, and the worse-than-useless “old tabs” feature or whatever they call it that automatically hides tabs I’ve had open too long. On Chromium I will literally have hundreds of tabs on there at times, and it’s great because I can quickly access a “workspace” of things depending on what I’m doing right now. On Firefox the best I can do is roughly reorder them, and even then it takes two taps instead of one to switch to one of my choice, in addition to scrolling if it’s more than 4 away. It’s such trash that it makes me mad every time I use it and every time I think of it, because I KNOW the Firefox team could replicate the Chromium feature, but instead they fuck around adding AI doodads, while ignoring this silver bullet feature that single handedly keeps me from switching to them as my only browser. Keep in mind this functionality has existed in Chromium browsers 5 years ago, albeit slightly less usable than it is now. It has been this great for probably 4 years. I just can’t go back, for certain things.
That was informative. I stopped using Chrome/chromium browsers on mobile specifically because I was attempting to lighten my google-load. I’ll have to give the grouping a try sometime. FF has it on desktop, I use it a lot now that it’s on there. I think that was somewhat recent. I never even thought about it being on the mobile version, yeah, that would be handy.
I’m too ready to ladybird browser to be ready in a few years.
I was looking forward to ladybird until I saw social media posts from the person who runs the project, like:
In recent years I’ve attended multiple software conference talks that had unrelated extreme political rhetoric in slides, such as “fuck [name]” and “punch [group]”.
Whenever this happened, some of the audience would clap and cheer, I’d roll my eyes, and the talk would get back on topic.
Fast-forward to today, and look at how many people in our industry are openly celebrating the murder of someone they decided was a “nazi” and “fascist”. Turns out these people were more serious than I thought.
As someone who’s repeatedly been called a “nazi” and “fascist” myself for disagreements with far-left ideology, I know how easily those labels get thrown around. And honestly, this is making me seriously reconsider which conferences I attend.
There’s a hateful rot within our industry. It shouldn’t be socially acceptable to cheer for murder. We need to do more than roll our eyes.
source: https://nitter.net/awesomekling/status/1967178708852097278
Can you really discount and avoid a whole project because of that statement?
It reads like: “Can we keep politics out of software?”
Which I agree with for the most part.
I’m not sure I have experienced enough of life to make this statement, but it feels like in recent years a lot of people are becoming radicalized through social media, etc, which is seeing its spread into every conversation and space. Maybe he is done with politics and doesn’t want to keep hearing about it in unrelelated spaces (software conferences). What’s wrong with that?
I’ve seen the guy on a podcast where he explains ladybird, he seems like a good dude doing it out of love and to see competition in the browser space, I can’t fault him for this (nothing burger).
Do you think differently?
Can you really discount and avoid a whole project because of that statement?
yes
He is pretty much openly admitting he has right wing views and it is influencing his social media and project policy.
“Punch Nazis” is literally the only use of the phrase “punch [group]” in modern culture. Redacting specifically Nazi from the statement to make it seem like it is a general statement used, which suggests that is is note broad violent rhetoric, is a very often used dogwhistle by Nazis (and is being used daily by the extreme right wing, at this point satisfying nearly every academic hallmark of fascism, american government).
It is also relevant to note that during the project startup, someone simply suggested a 10 minute search and replace change to use more neutral language and he responded “your personal politics have no place here” even though that is not necessarily political.
Again, the only people that get that offended and snappy with something as benign as using a single different pronoun are the people who support taking basic rights away from human beings. I have never met another type person who cares at all.
The real question is, if a terrible person creates something (potentially) good and let’s their own politics create arguments and stir up drama, but just use the guise of “oh it’s because I want to be apolitical”, is it worth giving money and support to that person. How can you trust someone to always make a “free as in freedom browser” when they literally support (hypothetically) authoritarianism, mass surveillance, and taking rights away in real life? That is the antithesis of the project’s mission.
Also, life is inherently political. There is a group of people literally wanting to kidnap, torture, enslave, kill, and/or remove any rights from another large group of people. Ignoring those problems and welcoming those people with open arms gives them the chance to spread those hateful and violent views, as evidenced by their rapid growth by creating safe spaces for them on the internet.
It is a sad reality, but throughout much of human history, there has been a large groups of people don’t have the luxury to “avoid talking about politics” and “making things political” because they were literally getting enslaved and/or killed by it. And that is happening today still, visibly and publically.
Yeah, ladybird is dead to me. I think the assumption that you can keep politics out of anything is wrong. Everything is political and only if you are in a privileged position (because you are rich or not a suppressed minority or whatever) you can afford to be apolitical because things are already going your way. When someone demands to “keep politics out” I think it should be interpreted as “I don’t want to renegotiate the status quo because I don’t want to lose my privilege.”
Another thing that annoys me about his comment is the victimhood complex. He is complaining that people are being mean to him but if people are “repeatedly” calling you nazi or fascist … chances are you are saying fascist things and I don’t see any self-reflection here.
I guess at the very least, we can be happy he is building a new engine that we (the community) can fork when done 💀
A few years? I thought alpha would be out this year
An alpha is hardly a replacement for a full browser though.
Lol, they said that last year
I don’t like Brave or the amount of bloat. Sadly what is missing from basically all Chromium forks is even basic browser anti-fingerprinting. The only other real example I can think of is Cromite, which is what i recommend people use instead of Brave.
I always use and recommend hardened Firefox + Ublock. As a search engine, I use Qwant, which is based in the EU and uses its own search engine whenever possible rather than Google, Bing, etc. And there is another reason not to recommend using Brave. Among its investors is Peter Thiel, the most controversial figure in the investment world. Search for Peter Thiel’s controversial statements in your favourite search engine and you will see for yourself.
And if you’re concerned about the way Mozilla is headed, there are multiple open source versions like waterfox that should work with all extensions.
Consider a SearXNG instance. It can use Quant as a source, but balance across other engines to get the best results based on overlap (you choose the engines).
searxng is awesome.
Only thing is that instances go down from time and it gets frustrating. I am not geeky enough to host an instance myself. So I just keep hoping one instance to another which is also not very convenient. How do I make most of searx?
